Street Harassment Statistics – What the Studies Say

Originally published on http://www.stopstreetharassment.org

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Street harassment is an under-researched topic, but each existing study shows that street harassment is a significant and prevalent problem. The following statistics focus on prevalence are listed in chronological order.

Also, notably, Gallup data from surveys in 143 countries in 2011 show that in those countries, including Italy, France, Australia, and the U.S., men are considerably more likely than women to say they feel safe walking alone at night in their communities.

Academic & Community Studies:

1. Indianapolis, USA: In one of the first street harassment studies ever conducted, Carol Brooks Gardner, associate professor of sociology and women’s studies at Indiana University, Indianapolis, interviewed 293 women in Indianapolis, Indiana, over several years in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The women were from every race, age, class, and sexual orientation category of the general population in Indiana and the United States. Gardner found that every single woman (100 percent) could cite several examples of being harassed by unknown men in public and all but nine of the women classified those experiences as “troublesome.” (1)

2. Canada: Using a national sample of 12,300 Canadian women ages 18 and older from 1994, sociology professors Ross Macmillan, Annette Nierobisz, and Sandy Welsh studied the impact of street harassment on women’s perceived sense of safety in 2000. During their research, they found that over 80 percent of the women surveyed had experienced male stranger harassment in public and that those experiences had a large and detrimental impact on their perceived safety in public. (2)

3. United States: Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates conducted a nationally representative telephone survey of 612 adult women between June 17 and June 19, 2000. From this survey, they found that almost all women had experienced street harassment: 87 percent of American women between the ages of 18-64 had been harassed by a male stranger; and over one half of them experienced “extreme” harassment including being touched, grabbed, rubbed, brushed or followed by a strange man on the street or other public place. Shattering the myth that street harassment is an urban problem, the survey found that women in all areas experienced it: 90 percent in rural areas, 88 percent in suburban areas, and 87 percent in urban areas. Sadly, 84 percent of women “consider changing their behavior to avoid street harassment.” (3)

4. California Bay Area, USA: Laura Beth Nielsen, professor of sociology and the law at Northwestern University conducted a study of 100 women’s and men’s experiences with offensive speech in the California San Francisco Bay Area in the early 2000s. She found that 100 percent of the 54 women she asked had been the target of offensive or sexually-suggestive remarks at least occasionally: 19 percent said every day, 43 percent said often, and 28 percent said sometimes. Notably, they were the target of such speech significantly more often than they were of “polite” remarks about their appearance. (4)

5. Beijing: A 2002 survey of 200 citizens in Beijing, China, showed that 70 percent had been subjected to a form of sexual harassment. Most people said it occurred on public transportation, including 58 percent who said it occurred on the bus. (5)

6. Chicago, USA: During the summer of 2003, members of the Rogers Park Young Women’s Action Team in Chicago surveyed 168 neighborhood girls and young women (most of whom were African American or Latina) ages 10 to 19 about street harassment and interviewed 34 more in focus groups. They published their findings in a report titled “Hey Cutie, Can I Get Your Digits?” Of their respondents, 86 percent had been catcalled on the street, 36 percent said men harassed them daily, and 60 percent said they felt unsafe walking in their neighborhoods. (6)

7. Tokyo, Japan: Groping on trains, subways, and transit stations in Tokyo, Japan, is rampant. In a 2004 survey of 632 women who travel during rush-hour in Tokyo, nearly 64 percent of the women in their 20s and 30s said they were groped while commuting. (7) In 2008 in Tokyo alone there were 2,000 reported groping cases (and it is an underreported crime). (8)

8. Pakistan: In a study of more than 200 youth in Gujranwala, Pakistan, 96 percent of the girls experienced street harassment. (9)

9. New York City, USA: In 2007, the Manhattan Borough President’s Office conducted an online questionnaire about sexual harassment on the New York City subway system with a total of 1,790 participants. Nearly two-thirds of the respondents identified as women. Of the respondents, 63 percent reported being sexually harassed and one-tenth had been sexually assaulted on the subway or at a subway station. Due to collection methods used, the report “Hidden in Plain Sight: Sexual Harassment and Assault in the New York City Subway System” is not statistically significant, but it suggests that a large number of women experience problems on the subway system. (10)

10. Egypt: The Egyptian Centre for Women’s Rights surveyed 2,000 Egyptian men and women and 109 foreign women in four governorates in the country, including Cairo and Giza, about sexual harassment on Egyptian streets. They published their findings in 2008. Eighty-three percent of Egyptian women reported experiencing sexual harassment on the street at least once and nearly half of the women said they experience it daily. Ninety-eight percent of the foreign women surveyed reported experiencing sexual harassment while in Egypt. Wearing a veil did not appear to lessen a woman’s chances of being harassed. About 62 percent of Egyptian men admitted to perpetrating harassment. (11)

11. Yemen: In Yemen, the Yemen Times conducted a survey on teasing and sexual harassment in Sana’a in 2009. Ninety percent of the 70 interviewees from Sana’a said they had been sexually harassed in public. Seventy-two percent of the women said they were called sexually-charged names while walking on the streets and 20 percent of this group said it happens on a regular basis. About 37 percent of the sample said they had experienced physical harassment. Like those in Egypt, these survey results implied that being veiled did not lessen the harassment, because wearing a veil in public is so common. (12)

12. India: Throughout 2009, the Centre for Equity and Inclusion surveyed 630 women of all ages and socioeconomic status in New Delhi and Old Delhi, India. Ninety-five percent of the women said their mobility was restricted because of fear of male harassment in public places. Another 82 percent said the bus is the most unsafe mode of public transportation for them because of male harassers. (13)

13. Korea: In 2010, a study of 828 salaried employees in an unnamed city in Korea shared their experiences with harassmetn during their commute. Foty-three percent of the people experienced harassmetn and 79 percent of them were women. Around 72 percent of the incidents occurred on subway cars, followed by buses at 27.3 percent and taxis at 1.1 percent. Nearly 60 percent said they experienced harassment between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m. when most workers are on their way to work, while 17 percent were between 6 p.m. and 8 p.m. while returning home from work. Only 18.2 percent strongly protested against the assailants and 6.3 percent shouted in anger. (14)

14. Tel Aviv, Israel: 83 percent of women in Tel Aviv reported experiencing street harassment in a study conducted by the Tel Aviv-Jaffa Municipality’s committee for advancing the status of women, with help from shelters for survivors of sexual assault and the Shatil organization. According to the survey, the group reporting the highest incidence of harassment included women aged 22-39. The most common forms of harassment are whistling in the street (64% of all respondents reported experiencing this ), cars beeping horns (61% ), knowing looks (45% ), suggestive remarks (40% ), inappropriate proposals (22% ), touching (21% ) and stalking (18% ). Also, 6% of respondents reported that they were victims of sexual abuse. (15)

15. London, United Kingdom: In a poll conducted by the Ending Violence Against Women (EVAW) Coalition in London, 43 percent of young women ages 18-34 had experienced street harassment just during the past year alone. The total sample size was 1047 adults and the poll was conducted in early March 2012. (16)

16. Poland: Hollaback! Poland conducted an informal online survey of 818 people (mostly women) in 2012. They found that 85% of female respondents had experienced street harassment in public spaces in Poland, as had 44% of men. Read the full results.

17. Croatia: Hollaback! Croatia informally surveyed 500 people (mostly women) online about street harassment in 2012. They found that 99 percent of women experienced some form of street harassment in their lifetime, and 50 percent experienced it by age 18.  Read the full results.

18. Turkey: Hollaback Istanbul/Canımız Sokakat conducted an online survey of 141 people (mostly women). They found that 93 percent had been street harassed and 69 percent experience street harassment at least on a monthly basis. Read the full results.

19. New York City: In partnership with Hollaback!, researchers from the Worker Institute at Cornell asked 110 New York City-based social service providers whether or not they receive reports of street harassment, and if so, how they respond to those reports. They found that more than 86 percent of respondents had received reports of street harassment from a client, constituent or consumer.

20. France: “Researchers from The National Institute of Statistics and Economics Studies found in a 2013 study that 25% of women aged 18-29 reported being scared when they walked on the streets. They also discovered that 1 in 5 women have suffered from verbal harassment on the street in the past year, and 1 in 10 said they had been kissed or caressed against their consent.” Citation.

21. Egypt: The United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Women published a report in 2013 showing that 99.3% of Egyptian women have experienced some form of sexual harassment. The study indicates that “96.5% of women in their survey said that sexual harassment came in the form of touching, which was the most common manifestation of sexual harassment. Verbal sexual harassment had the second-highest rate experienced by women with 95.5% of women reporting cases.” (17)

Footnotes:

1. Carol Brooks Gardner, Passing By: Gender and Public Harassment (Berkeley, CA: University of California Press, 1995), 89-90.

2. Ross Macmillan, Annette Nierobisz, and Sandy Welsh, “Experiencing the Streets: Harassment and Perceptions of Safety Among Women,” Journal of Research in Crime and Delinquency 37, no. 3 (August 2000), 318.

3. Oxygen/Markle Pulse Poll, “Harassment of Women on the Street Is Rampant; 87% of American Women Report Being Harassed on the Street By a Male Stranger,” June 22, 2000.

4. Laura Beth Nielsen, License to Harass: Law, Hierarcy, and Offensive Public Speech (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 2004), 43.

5. Shanghi Star, “Harassment rampant on public transportation,” April 11, 2002.

6. Amaya N. Roberson, “Anti-Street Harassment,” Off Our Backs, May-June 2005, page 48.

7. ABC News, “Japan Tries Women-Only Train Cars to Stop Groping;” see also Erin Johnston, “Women feel Tokyo train gropers,” Guardian, November 24, 2004.

8. Takahiro Fukada, “In anonymous packed train lurk gropers,” The Japan Times, August 18, 2009.

9. Bargad, Research Study, Street Harassment against Girls in District Gujranwala (2005).

10. Scott M. Stringer, “Hidden in Plain Sight: Sexual Harassment and Assault in the New York City Subway System,” July 2007; see also Sewell Chan, “Subway Harassment Questionnaire Garners a Big Response,” New York Times, July 26, 2008.

11. Johnston, “Two-thirds of Egyptian men harass women?”; see also Magdi Abdelhadi, “Egypt’s sexual harassment ‘cancer,’” BBC News, July 18, 2008.

12. Yemen Times, “Sexual harassment deters women from outdoor activities,” January 21, 2009.

13. All Headline News, “Survey Finds Majority of Delhi Women Fear Sexual Harassment in Public Places,” November 17, 2009; see also Indian Express, “82% Delhi women find buses most unsafe: study,” November 14, 2009.

14. Hyo-sik, Lee. “4 in 10 salaried workers harassed during commute,” Korea Times, December 7, 2010.

15. Lior, Ilan. “Vast majority of Tel Aviv women report sexual harassment, survey finds,” Haaretz, November 23, 2011.

16. “4 in 10 young women in London sexually harassed over last year,” Ending Violence Against Women Coalition, May 25, 2012.

17. “99.3% of Egyptian women experience sexual harassment: report,” Daily News Egypt, April 2013.

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Top Ten Myths of Street Harassment

Originally posted on Ottawa Hollaback!

harassment

Myth #1: Street harassment is a First Amendment right.

Not so fast.  Legally speaking, harassment falls under “sexual assault” in most states. Take a look at National Women’s Health Information Center’s definition the Washington’s Office of Crime Victims Advocacy’s definition, or the Center for Disease Control’s definition. All of them specifically mention that even sexually-charged language hurled at an individual who doesn’t want it qualifies as assault, along with obscene phone calls, stalking, groping, any force genital contact, any forced sexual acts and rape.  Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 specifically outlaws sexual harassment in the workplace, and the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission clearly states, “Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.” The National Institute of Mental Health outlines all the various definitions of sexual violence – many of which never require a perpetrator even touch his or her victim.

And then of course, there are plenty of laws against hate speech. But really, it comes down to a single simple golden rule: “treat others as you would like to be treated.” Now, is it really that hard? We didn’t think so.

Myth #2: Street harassment is a cultural thing.

Simply put, street harassment happens in every country in the world.  So no, it’s isn’t cultural.  But there is something deeper to this question.  In our experience what people really mean by this question is: “is this a men of color thing?”

This question is a dangerous one, because it perpetuates the myth that men of color are sexual predators which simply isn’t true. In New York City, where we have the longest history of posts with pictures, the racial breakdown of harassers perfectly mirrors the racial breakdown of the city itself.  This is consistent with all forms of gender-based violence.  Harassers, like rapists, come from all racial and class backgrounds.  And this is because harassment is deeper than the color of our skin or the income brackets of our neighborhoods. It’s about an international culture when gender-based violence is simply seen as OK.  So yeah, I guess it is a “cultural” thing.  It just happens to be everyone’s culture.

Myth #3: It’s only a harmless compliment/flirting.

If it’s a compliment, it’s not harassment.

But we understand some of you nice guys may want some more guidance so as not to offend. So here we go:  if a man approaches a woman in public politely, strikes up a conversation with her, receives a clear rejection and respects her wishes, that’s not harassment.  Street harassment happens when words and actions are obviously unwanted and non-consensual. It’s forceful. It’s dehumanizing. It’s propelled by a sense of entitlement and profound disrespect for others.  Perpetrators don’t want to give compliments or forge mutually beneficial connections; they want to intimidate and bully others. They resort to insults, stalking, threats or acts of violence when told to leave.

If you’re hoping to get your flirt on, there’s many different ways to do so without coming off as a creep!  Comments on a shared experiences (“this coffee is the bomb”), conspicuous books (“I haven’t read that yet, is it any good?”), cute accessories (“that watch is sweet”), or current events are all things that make us swoon.

But here’s a word to the wise, nice guy: you may not have created this world of street harassment, but you’re living in it.  And the object of your affection has been socialized in it. So if your flirting is met with resistance, hesitation, or downright rudeness, don’t take it personally.   Just say sorry, keep it moving, and remember the 80% of the 811 women Holly Kearl surveyed who said they constantly have to look over their shoulder. The 50% who have to cross the street and find alternate paths to their ultimate destinations. The 45% who feel as if they can’t go in public alone and the 26% who feel as if they have to lie about a significant other to get perpetrators to leave them alone. The 19% who had to move and the 9% who needed to completely change jobs just to avoid street harassment.  And if the rejection pisses you off, take it out on the harassers and get involved.

Myth #4: That’s just how men are. Deal with it.

Hardly.   Hollaback! was founded by three men (and four women), a third of our board is men, and half our donors are men.  Not to mention, most men don’t street harass. It just happens to be that those who do seem particularly vocal.  Respect, after all, is neither a “masculine” nor a “feminine” concept. It’s a human concept.

Myth #5: Street harassment is fine as long as the harasser is hot.

I don’t care how hot you are, hearing things like “Girl, do you want to be my pony,” or “I want to taste you,”  from random strangers will always be scary.  After all, a fetching face can’t make up for a disrespectful, entitled core.

Myth #6: We secretly enjoy street harassment.

If we enjoy it, it’s not harassment. Duh.

Holly Kearl’s surveys noted that women took no issue with gender-neutral greetings, compliments, sentiments and smiles. Once things started veering into discussions of physical attributes, however, many saw these comments as reductionist, if not outright threatening.  For those who experience harassment often or who have histories of sexual assault, street harassment can feel like ripping a scab off.

Myth #7: Look at what she’s wearing! If you get harassed, it’s because you were asking for it.

Because street harassment occurs all over the world – including countries enforcing a strict dress code, or ones that are simply too cold to dress revealing – one cannot levy any real blame on what people choose to wear.  Holly Kearl’s research and the thousands of stories on the Hollaback! site show that it doesn’t matter if you’re wearing a parka or a burqua, harassment still happens. That’s because harassment is not about sex, it’s about power.

We believe that you should be able to feel safe, confident, and even sexy when you walk down the street, and that street harassment is never, ever, your fault.

Myth #8: Street harassment only happens to the young and hot.

Like we said before, street harassment isn’t about sex. It’s about power.  If street harassment was about getting dates it would be what author Marty Langlan calls a “spectacularly unsuccessful strategy.”  Instead, street harassment is about “putting people in their place.”  Sometimes it’s sexual, sometimes it’s racial, sometimes it’s homophobic, and sometimes it’s all of the above.  If you’ve been harassed, submit your story.

Myth #9: Anyone who complains about street harassment is a man-hating, bra-burning psychofeminazi who hates freedom/needs a boyfriend/needs sex to loosen up/ugly.

People who experience street harassment hail from a diverse variety of nations, races, religions, political views, relationship statuses, education backgrounds, sizes, sexual orientations, gender identities, ages, abilities, socioeconomic brackets – and so on and so forth. Truth be told, just about the one thing we all have in common is a distaste of street harassment in its many ugly forms. We want to see a safer, more equitable global society. We want to live our lives without succumbing to fear. Don’t you want that too?

Myth #10: As long at it’s not violent, it’s not harmful.

Sexual violence exists on a spectrum. On the mildest end sit verbal harassment. On the most severe end sits sexual assault and rape. Although these experiences aren’t interchangeable, harassment carries many of the same traits as other forms of sexual violence, and can cause considerable mental and emotional damage. For individuals previously victimized by molestation, sexual assault, rape or other acts of sexual violence and exploitation, even a seemingly “harmless” sexual comment potentially serves as a trigger. And once this trigger gets activated, it can mean anything from traumatic flashbacks to panic attacks. Depending on the individual, such a disruption could mean hours or days of recovery. Acts on the least severe side of the scale leave no physical scars, but that doesn’t mean they can’t hurt those on the receiving end in other ways.

The Everyday Sexism Project

The Everyday Sexism Project exists to catalogue instances of sexism experienced by women on a day to day basis. They might be serious or minor, outrageously offensive or so niggling and normalised that you don’t even feel able to protest. Say as much or as little as you like, use your real name or a pseudonym – it’s up to you. By sharing your story you’re showing the world that sexism does exist, it is faced by women everyday and it is a valid problem to discuss.

Women who complain about disrespectful comments being made to female members in the House of Commons are accused of ‘overreacting’, yet only 22% of MPs are female. Those who object to the sexist portrayal of women in the media are branded ‘killjoys’, yet nearly 70% of speaking parts in Hollywood films are taken by men, (though female characters are five times more likely to strip down to sexy clothing.) Women who object to the over-sexualisation of female celebrities are told ‘it’s a choice’, yet it is almost impossible to think of a modern female singer who hasn’t bared all. Women are told that modern ‘equality’ means career girls can have their cake and eat it, yet only around 13% of FTSE 100 corporate board members are female.

We are encouraged to celebrate the advance of women into the cockpit, yet Ryanair still releases an all-female nude calendar and Virgin flight attendants go to work every day on a plane emblazoned with a cleavage baring, swimsuit clad caricasexismture. We simply aren’t living in an equal society, but we are blasted for ‘whining’ or ‘not knowing how lucky we are’ if we try to point it out.

Submit your entry here.

 

The Dangers of Wearing a Skirt.

An academic study by me;

Times harassed on the street whilst wearing my usual clothes (jeans and a jumper): Zero.

Times harassed on the street whilst wearing a skirt and thin black tights: Five.

Dear obnoxious men of the world, contrary to popular opinion, a woman wearing revealing clothing is not an open invitation for harassment. There are a number of reasons why a woman would want to wear revealing clothing, including (but not limited to):

  • It’s more practical. (This was the case for me, as I was on my way to a dress rehearsal and it was easier to just wear half of my costume)
  • It’s a warm day. (Which was also the case)
  • They just want to.

Very rarely does a woman wear revealing clothing to be yelled at and wolf-whistled to by obnoxious men.

We seem to live in a society which has sexualised the female body…

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Women should not accept street harassment as ‘just a compliment’

Originally published on The Women’s Blog

Two men look at a young woman on a street

The dehumanised discussion of your body by a group of passers-by is different from a compliment. Photograph: Pascal Saez/Alamy

Walking down a quiet street at around 7pm a few nights ago I noticed, without thinking anything of it, that there were two men coming towards me in the opposite direction. It being dark but for the street lamps, it wasn’t until they came quite a lot closer that I started to notice the tell-tale signs. As they neared, the men were overtly looking me up and down, eyes lingering on my breasts and legs, before turning back to one another, saying something I couldn’t hear, and sniggering. My heartbeat quickened, the hair rose on my arms, and I felt the usual emotions flood through me. Fear. Anxiety. Impotence. Anger. Frustration. Misplaced embarrassment and shame.

This is one of the things I think some men don’t understand, the men who ask you what the big deal is about street harassment, say they’d love it if it happened to them, or suggest you just “take it as a compliment”. It’s not a simple, one-moment experience. It’s a horribly drawn-out affair. The process of scanning the street as you walk; the constant alert tension; the moment of revelation and the sinking feeling as you realise what is going to happen. Countless women have written to me about the defence mechanisms they put in place – walking with keys between their knuckles just to feel safe – wearing their earphones so they can keep their head down and ignore it. The whole process of going out, particularly at night, can become fraught and difficult.

Why don’t you just take it as a compliment?

Too late to cross the street, I braced myself for the moment of passing, muscles tensed, cold fists involuntarily clenched. I understand that this must sound like an overreaction. But it isn’t. Because the way we think and behave is shaped by our previous experiences. Too many times, in my own experience, this situation has turned from leering to aggressive sexual advances, from polite rebuttal to angry shouts of ‘slag’, ‘slut’, ‘whore’. Once, I was chased down the street. Once, I was trapped against a wall. Once, my crotch was grabbed suddenly, shockingly, in vitriolic entitlement. So yes, my muscles contracted and I drew into myself as they passed.

For a moment, they paused, and one glanced at my breasts before turning nonchalantly to the other. I was expecting the usual. “Look at the tits on that”, or “I wouldn’t say no”. But what he actually said took my breath away:

“I’d hold a knife to that.”

The other man laughed, and they walked away without giving me a second glance.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I don’t take it as a compliment. Because it’s not a compliment. It’s a statement of power. It’s a way of letting me know that a man has the right to my body, a right to discuss it, analyse it, appraise it, and let me or anybody else in the vicinity know his verdict, whether I like it or not. It’s a power that is used to intimidate and dehumanise members of the LGBTQIA community, who suffer disproportionate levels of street harassment. It’s a “right” that extends even to the bodies of the 11- and 12-year–old girls who have written to the Everyday Sexism Project in their hundreds, describing shouted comments about their breasts and developing bodies as they walk in their uniform to school. Street harassment is no more about compliments than rape is about sex. Both are about power, violence and control. That’s why, when women have the temerity to reject the advances of street harassers, they so often turn, in a moment, to angry outbursts of abuse. Because that rejection disrupts their entitlement to our bodies, which society has allowed them to believe is their inherent right.

This doesn’t mean the end of compliments. It doesn’t mean you can’t flirt, or be attracted to a stranger, or make a polite approach and strike up a conversation. Those are all completely different things from commentary about your body that is directed at you, not to you, the dehumanised discussion of your parts by a group of passers-by, not caring that you can hear, or a scream of “sexy” or “slut” or “pussy”. Those aren’t compliments. They’re something else. I believe that the vast majority of people know the difference. If you’re really not sure, err on the side of caution.

This is not to suggest that every woman is a cowering victim, or that we’re all too scared to go about our business on a daily basis. Just that it would be nice if those people who think street harassment is “just a compliment” recognised the very real and enormous impact it has on victim’s lives – not just in the moment, but day-in, day-out. A compliment doesn’t make you rethink your route the next time you walk down the street. Many women, including Doris Chen, who grabbed hold of a man on the underground after he ejaculated on her, have bravely confronted their harassers. But the point is that they shouldn’t have to. Nobody knows how they will react in that situation until it happens. Often, victims report feeling frozen with shock. Sometimes it isn’t safe to respond. Instead of telling victims how to react, we should focus on preventing it from happening in the first place. And we can start by debunking the myth that street harassment is just a bit of harmless fun. So stop telling women to “just take it as a compliment”.

Why we still need feminism

Ending In Equality

Yanochka, 10 March 2014

 

On International Women’s Day a member of our local feminist group wrote a post about political inequalities in the world on Facebook. I particularly liked that she wrote that our gender, sex and political orientation should not limit our personality. (You can find the whole post here). Yet when I talk about feminism and women’s rights many people ask me why I bother, often arguing either of the following: that we are beyond feminism because the fight for equality has been won and women are now equal to men, or that the aims of feminism are not worth fighting for. Some believe that feminists are anti-sex and hate men. Others oppose the term “feminism” itself; arguing that it turns women and men into victims, excluding men from a movement for equality and encouraging women to ask for more than is “good” for them…

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